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MCTEAGLE
GET A LIFE!!! |
     
Taking this back to the top. Think registering might be important given 7 of us have each bought a laptop at £100 = £700 plus 28% back = an extra £196 for the appeal. (using Gift Aid).
Likewise, if you're registered you can qualify for GAYE (Give as you earn) - this lets people set it up so money is deducted from your top line - e.g. I give £10 a month off my wages to Diabetes UK, but the charity actually gets £14 a month.
Guess the organisers need to discuss what's best, but it seems when you're sitting with thousands in the bank that's a lot of extra cash that could be getting raised simply by filling in a few forms, and claiming any available tax back.
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18 years difference - still the record.http://www.mcteagle.co.uk
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Total Posts: 1333 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 4:02 pm on Jan. 16, 2003 | IP
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Mazzy
GET A LIFE!!! |
Wee update...
Tartan Army Casualty aka Bob Cruden and CMc aka Carey McEvoy are looking into the pros and cons of registering the Sunshine Appeal as a Charity.
If anyone wants to give them some help or do a bit of investigating on their own, please don`t hesitate!
Once it is established what it would mean for those volunteering to adminster the Appeal and all involved in donating, fundraising etc., then hopefully a consensus can be reached about what way to go.
Yet again can I suggest forebearance until after Lithuania? It might be however that a decision can be made about registration before we get over there and any action taken soon after the trip.
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Free Syringes In The Fringes
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Total Posts: 1160 | Joined May 2002 | Posted on: 10:53 am on Jan. 28, 2003 | IP
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Tartan Army Casualty
GET A LIFE!!! |
ok, quick update on progress so far.
I've contacted the Inland Revenue for information on registering as a charity. They are sending me some literature, and said it could take up to two weeks for this to reach me (nobody said they were quick ).
As soon as I recieve this, and have read through it, I will post all the relevant information.
However, one thing I picked up from their website was that we would need a constitution which needs to contain the following:-
If you are drafting a constitution for a new charitable association or society, please check that your draft includes the following features.
The name of the body.
Its charitable purposes or objects.
Powers to enable it to carry out its objects.
Arrangements for membership – normally this should be open to anyone interested in furthering the objects of the association.
Arrangements for management of the association.
Arrangements for holding meetings including Annual General Meetings and Extraordinary General meetings.
Arrangements for voting for office- bearers.
Finance - powers to pay expenses and arrangements for preparation and examination of accounts.
Arrangements for amendments or alterations to the constitution including how these should be approved by the members.
Dissolution - in case you ever need to wind up the association, you need a clause stating what will happen to any remaining assets. It should provide for such assets to go either to another charity, to be applied for charitable purposes or to be held on trusts for charitable purposes.
The only problem I can see with the above is the voting issue.
Obviously, we could set up a thread with nominations, and ask everyone to vote by posting on the thread. I don't think that would wash with the IR, who would probably want some kind of paper ballot.
We would also need to have a "proper" committee set up, who would need to meet formally at least once per year for an AGM.
It all sounds like a lot of work, and it would take a bit of time to set up, but I think that it would be worth it for the Appeal, and I don't think that it would be that much work in the long run, just loads of paperwork, and I'm sure we all deal with that on a daily basis at work, and in our private lives.
Have a look at:-
http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/pdfs/ir2004.htm#a
for some more information.
Feel free to offer any advice, after all it's your Appeal
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I may be daft, but I'm not stupid
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Total Posts: 1953 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 2:50 pm on Jan. 30, 2003 | IP
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geordieboy
GET A LIFE!!! |
 
Quote: from Tartan Army Casualty on 1:50 pm on Jan. 30, 2003
Extraordinary General meetings
i think that falls within the bounds of the tartan army 
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Sweet Caroline, Sparkling wine!
Oh Oh Oh!
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Total Posts: 2050 | Joined April 2002 | Posted on: 4:30 pm on Jan. 30, 2003 | IP
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Mazzy
GET A LIFE!!! |
Maybe it would just be voting of the "committee" type people rather than everyone who donates or raises funds?
Or whoever wants membership is on a email list for any balloting?
It probably looks worse than it is - as long as the minimum requirements are met it might not be too much hassle (fingers crossed)
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Free Syringes In The Fringes
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Total Posts: 1160 | Joined May 2002 | Posted on: 6:44 pm on Jan. 30, 2003 | IP
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perthTam
GET A LIFE!!! |
I am sure the annual meeting could be arranged to be at Pandora's on a home match day (before everyone gets pashed!)
Only concern I have is the formal accounts/finance reporting bit. There must be some accountant (student one even?) who could do this......
I can see tax benefits of maybe a £1000 a year. As such my thoughts are now heading towards setting up as a charity (but keeping the formality to the minimum required in the eyes of the Inland Revenue).....
As said before let's leave it till after Lithuania game to allow folks plenty time to look into this themselves and give there opinion on this thread if they have a preference.
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I'm dribbling Irn-Bru.......
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Total Posts: 574 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 8:24 pm on Feb. 2, 2003 | IP
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C Mc
GET A LIFE!!! |
According to the IR anyone on the "Committee" could sign for the accounts, so there's no hard and fast rules it seems.
I'm sure I could find a qualified accountant to do it for free.  
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C Mc
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Total Posts: 603 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 1:15 pm on Feb. 3, 2003 | IP
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Tartan Army Casualty
GET A LIFE!!! |
Right, I think we said we were going to have some sort of discussion on this subject and say "yes or no" after the Lithuania game.
Well, the time is here.
All the info is available on the Inland Revenue website, so have a look and put your tuppenceworth in.
I could drone on at length about this, but think it is better that you form your own opinions.
Cheers.
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I may be daft, but I'm not stupid
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Total Posts: 1953 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 8:45 am on April 8, 2003 | IP
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ianblack
GET A LIFE!!! |
Here's my twopence worth, and it is the reply I made to the top-secret and highly paid hierarchical cabal running the Sunshine Appeal, most of whom can be seen in the Party Photos thread, thanks to Tartan Sheep.
Howdy all,
I'm with Ruary on this one. Those of you who know me well will know that I ain't joining no committees and I ain't following no rules but my own. I wish you all well, as, in the words of the supreme Scottish compliment: "I've met worse", and I have memories which I will cherish till I shuffle off this mortal coil.
This is what I think will happen. Without a central driving force and the freedom to work without constraints, energy levels will drop off, joy will diminish, endless hours which could be spent in good-fun dosh raising will be wasted in fruitless debate, officers will be appointed, expenses will be paid, point-scoring will start, then recriminations, and then it will disintegrate messily with new enemies made all round. Sorry to be so negative. Been there. Done that. Still wiping away the tears with the t-shirt.
I think I might start the Joyful Anarchist We Accept Anybody Nae Rules Moonlighting Fund, first target Brit Ambassador to Lithuania, Jeremy Hill, a sound-as-a-pound guy who laughed when I sang: "You'll like Jeremy Hill, he's a poof, he's a poof ", in front of his wife and kids. He's already promised to go to Zagare with me and I think will double anything that I raise, as will, I think, the Brit Council and maybe Lloyds TSB. I'll keep you posted, but only if I feel like it.
Ian.
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Total Posts: 299 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 4:51 pm on April 8, 2003 | IP
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Tam
GET A LIFE!!! |
Firstly, well done to abody for the work they put in making such a difference to the lives of the kids in Lithuania. 
I know and trust all the Sunshine Appeal volunteers implicitly, however I worry about the current "informal" nature of the Appeal.
Applying for Charitable status can take long enough and the quicker all the structures and building blocks are in place to encapsulate the spirit and mission of the Sunshine appeal the better, IMHO.
Ian, you are an old hippy mate. Stop with the doobies and the free love and come back to the current capitalist times.
BTW: congratulations on joining WESTA at last!!!! 
Having been through all the comments/sarky remarks/whispers while collecting for the Special Care Baby Unit at Ninewells Hospital for the last 4 years, I know what some people think/say, joking or otherwise.
It is better to have your arse completely covered than to leave a cheek exposed!
Old Chinese proverb
With the money raised, donations and goods received so far and the HUGE potential tunrover and revenue, it is the only real way forward. (Again, IMHO)
Again, well done everybodypeeps.
:bigroundofapplauseandmuchrespect:
Cheers,
Tam
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Note: All opinions expressed above are that of the author and in no way respresent any club, organisation or disorganisation
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Total Posts: 999 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 5:25 pm on April 8, 2003 | IP
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ianblack
GET A LIFE!!! |
Tam,
structures, building blocks? They don't encapsulate ( which means, incidentally, to enclose in a capsule, which is what I think you are trying to do ) the spirit and mission of the Sunshine Appeal, in my far from humble opinion. Can you not read the control freakery in the language that you use?
I might be an old hippy, but anally retentitive I am not, and I haven't smoked even so much as a fag these last thirty years. In terms of returning to capitalist times, I thought that the grand I raised for the weans in Lith wasn't too hippy, or too shabby, and if we are going to be capitalist about it then Ally, Ruary, Tartan Sheep, Mazzy, me and a couple of the others outvote the lot of you. I prefer being democratic, though, and scare stories about big bad taxmen don't bother me none. If I have to stand up and take a tax rap then I'll do so, but I doubt it. Can you see the headlines?
As for me joining WesTA, I hope that this is a wind-up. I will not join it or any other TA group for the simple reason that they are run by people who want to control, however mildly, as I think you have just demonstrated, and I'm not, as I have just demonstrated, awfy keen on that.
I think that these rumours, whispers etc. that you talk of have tainted your opinion. We are better than that. And so are you. Give up on this control stuff and let's get on with having a good time helping others do the same.
Thought hippies were peaceful, did you Tam? Not this one. I will not give up on this one. You are, quite simply, wrong.
Ian.
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Total Posts: 299 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 7:33 pm on April 8, 2003 | IP
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Mick North Croy
GET A LIFE!!! |
I`ve just had a look through the two websites pertaining to charity status, on this thread
and  looks like a minefield to me
probably need a two full-time secretaries and a Philadelphia lawyer to sort all that out
seriously, it looks like a whole load of work to me
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Mick. Support the TAMB Sunshine Appeal
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Total Posts: 1588 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:13 pm on April 8, 2003 | IP
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Ally Macabre
More Than Words |
Sorry Ian, I'm with Tam.
A sad fact of life is that as long as things are informal there will be questions asked by sceptics. ie. Dongle, TAOnly, and many others that have said things to me in private.
IMO the Welsh fans have shown what can really be done when you are organised. Again, IMO, we have good will and endeavour in abundance, but if its not directed properly you're not harnessing its full potential.
We've been collecting dosh for nearly a year, been on four trips since the ball started rolling, but only actually done something once.
Apart from not having the time, I am not interested in being involved for many reasons.
1. I don't think we should actively be looking for media attention.
2. I don't believe in bucket collections.
3. I do believe in a formal committee and charitable status.
It's the difference between being a bunch of amateurs, or being professional.
Maybe you don't like committees Ian 'cos you fall out with people when placed in that kind of environment?
And as for clubs, nobody is organising me! NOSTA/WESTA put together probably the cheapest package deal there was for Lithuania. Slag clubs off if you must, but hopefully you're big enough to acknowledge some of the benefits as well... 
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth, repeated for the umpteenth time since this whole thing kicked off. I fully expect it to be ignored again for the umpteenth time. But that's fine, 'cos I'm not involved anymore!
Good luck to you all. I will support you regardless. I'll buy the badges and t-shirts, I'll sponsor folk that do stuff, but I'm not putting anything in any fecking buckets!
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Disorganisation is an urban myth.
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Total Posts: 2643 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:20 pm on April 8, 2003 | IP
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Tam
GET A LIFE!!! |
Quote: from ianblack on 7:33 pm on April 8, 2003
Can you not read the control freakery in the language that you use?
Aparently not Ian, but thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.
As for me joining WesTA, I hope that this is a wind-up. I will not join it or any other TA group for the simple reason that they are run by people who want to control, however mildly, as I think you have just demonstrated, and I'm not, as I have just demonstrated, awfy keen on that.
A wee bit of double standards here Ian, unless of course it was another Ian Black on the WESTA Lithuania Trip????
Give up on this control stuff and let's get on with having a good time helping others do the same.
I gave up on control stuff last year Ian, when I walked away from any involvement in running the Sunshine Appeal.
I have contributed a fair bit to helping other and when a open discussion is taking place, to which I agree with a few people on here, I reserve the right to post my opinion.
You are, quite simply, wrong.
I'm not the only one who is wrong by the looks of it!
(Edited by Tam at 12:11 am on April 9, 2003)
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Note: All opinions expressed above are that of the author and in no way respresent any club, organisation or disorganisation
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Total Posts: 999 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 12:05 am on April 9, 2003 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Ignoring the wee personal dispute, .......my tuppence worth...
I think some people may be put off commenting here for two reasons at least.
1. People who are not involved or who don't want to be closely involved may think that its not their place to suggest imposing extra work on those that are.
2. Some may feel that any desire expressed to make the SA more structured and accountable will be seen as personal critisism of the way its been run so far, as has been seen in the past, and so will avoid potential conflict.
However being scared of neither... my view is, as it always has been that its a good idea in principle if people are willing to put in the extra work.
TAC did you get anywhere with the Welsh guys because when I corresponded with them they were quite positive about the whole thing and said it was very little extra work as most of the things should be being done anyway albeit on an informal basis?
Anyway my reasons for supporting this option are that firstly as a result of what a number people have said to me (and of course these are just my experiences). The feelings being expressed to me are that because of how the SA appeal has grown (which is a credit to all involved) that it is too big to be left the way it is and needs to be more structured or it could lose its way. There is also the issue of accountablility and this is an area that the Welsh guys raised with me that it was just as much to cover the backs of the organisers as to provide comfort to those donating. Some people/organisations may be more inclined to donate. In addition it may give some the security they need to actively become involved.
Some people may say stuff em if they are not prepared to trust we can do without them, but money is money and help is help and its a hard fact of life that trust isn't something we should take for granted or even expect. Feeling the need for accountablity does not have to be seen as a personal slight IMO.
Secondly, there is Gift Aid. How much money was in the appeal before Lithuania, how much is in it now and how much could it be with 28% extra? The vaste majority of the donations (if I am understanding the rules correctly) would be eligible for this with very little additional work. As far as I can tell all that would be required is a few more bits of information to be included with order forms and when purchasing items or getting donations such as those from The Pandora Bar. (The bucket collections would probably not be covered but I am with Ally on this one and would not ever donate money in this manner as I am not in favour of this method for a number of reasons.)
Anyway it may be an idea to talk to someone who has been down this route to find out how much work is really involved because I think the IR Site is covering all bases and I am not clear what is mandatory in this case and what is merely a suggestion and maybe more appropriate for actual charitable companies such as Oxfam etc.
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Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter because nobody listens.---Nick Diamos
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Total Posts: 4283 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 8:42 am on April 9, 2003 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Oh and on the tax issue. Maybe there is nothing to worry about, but taking a risk with your own money and taking it with other people's is an entirely different thing and therefore is something which I think is important to at least consider.
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Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter because nobody listens.---Nick Diamos
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Total Posts: 4283 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 8:57 am on April 9, 2003 | IP
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ianblack
GET A LIFE!!! |
Aye, ho hum, mair debate. Not my strong point, invective being more my style, but I'll try to reply fairly.
First point that occurs to me is that we have three ardent arguers for control, none of whom are prepared to actually do it. Who are you volunteering for the positions? I, like Mick, have had a look at the complications and I don't believe that I can handle them.
Ally,
to address your points.
1. I do believe that positive media attention is good for the TA and that it should be maintained, both by behaving ourselves and by pointing out to the media good positive stuff. I don't really understand your objection to this. We are heroes in Bosnia because of your actions and I for one like this idea.
2. This is a serious philosophical point. Non-belief in bucket collections implies distrust of the collector. The only people that I have seen doing it for the Sunshine Appeal have been Ruary and John (One day off the swally. What a wimp.) I trust both of them implicitly and I think that by objecting to them doing so that you impugn their honesty.
3. I don't believe that we can maintain formal committees and/or charitable status without falling into an abyss of contradictions and I believe that most of the present very ad hoc organisers are of the same mind.
And in answer to your general point, we are a bunch of amateurs. Professionals usually cost money and aren't a lot of fun. I, like you, am doing this because it makes me feel good. And, to my undying democratic shame, you are right about me and committees, though it is mostly them that reject me. I don't do them much any more.
Finally, Ally, I did't slag off clubs, I stated my own objection to them in what I thought was a fair way.
Tam,
no fair typographical debate. My thoughts are wee toty things and yours are huge and bold? I don't know if this is deliberate tactics or not but it isny fair and seems, pardon me for saying so, a bit controlling, so I'll leave you out.
Lamia, see my point above on the question of trust. The rest I think I have addressed already, though in the interests of fairness I would be interested in hearing about what the Welsh guys have achieved and how they got themselves organised.
The sun is shining and I am away to cut my grass. Tam, I promise not to smoke it.
Ian.
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Total Posts: 299 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 11:33 am on April 9, 2003 | IP
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Mazzy
GET A LIFE!!! |
:gulp:
sorry not very constructive but errrrrmmmm dunno what else to say...........
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Free Syringes In The Fringes
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Total Posts: 1160 | Joined May 2002 | Posted on: 11:48 am on April 9, 2003 | IP
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Ally Macabre
More Than Words |
Ian,
Fair points apart from one which I'll get back to in a moment!
I take on board your point about me choosing not to be involved. However we have been told on numerous occasions that the Sunshine Appeal "belongs" to all of us. As a TAMBer I'm using my right to voice my opinion - that's all...
As regards bucket collections I am not impugning anybody's honesty. I simply detest the confrontational nature of it. Basically you are being challenged - in front of your peers - to put money in a bucket. Giving to charity is something I do in private. Not in public. There is also the issue of non-TAMBers from the wider Tartan Army who just happen to be drinking in the Pandora, being asked to donate money into something they've probably never heard of - and which (as they are concerned) is completely unaccountable.
I simply don't approve of the emotional blackmail that goes with shaking collection tins and buckets in peoples faces. If that makes me a bad man then so be it...
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Disorganisation is an urban myth.
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Total Posts: 2643 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 11:49 am on April 9, 2003 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Ian
I completely resent the implication that I distrust those who have been collecting via buckets. My objections have absolutely nothing to do with how much I trust those collecting in this way so jumping to this conclusion is wholly unfair!
I do however stand by my comments on the subect of trust.
Also it seems that you are implying that you are only allowed to an express an opinion if you are prepared to get involved. That too seems unfair but if that is the case I will remove myself from this debate with immediate effect.
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Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter because nobody listens.---Nick Diamos
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Total Posts: 4283 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 11:54 am on April 9, 2003 | IP
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Tartan Army Message Board
registering as a charity
