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Horse
Fresh ideas |
    
I'm a bit worried. At forthcoming trips to Iceland, Germany and the Faroe Islands, standards of living are considerably higher in than in Scotland. The kids aren't likely to be up to the toothless and malnourished standard required for photo opportunities. How about a friendly in Romania soon?
Horse
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Total Posts: 14 | Joined May 2002 | Posted on: 12:26 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Ally Macabre
More Than Words |
Horse,
It's very easy to post mischief, and it's very easy to criticise. I take it that these strong views you hold can be backed up with the 'bottle' to discard your anonymity and face the people you are openly criticising on a public forum...
If you've got a problem with what honest people are trying to do here we're more than willing to discuss it. But not with a 'nameless' miscreant.
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Total Posts: 1710 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 1:13 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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ScottishMagpie
Talks too much |
Maybe what Horse is doing is questioning peoples motives behind charitable donations?
Anyone remember Chumbawumba's first album - Pictures of Starving Children sell Records.
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Total Posts: 110 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 2:42 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Ruary
GET A LIFE!!! |
The way I read it is that Horse like many of us would really prefer a game in Romania in order that he could hae a swatch at aw ra burdz 
Well hopefully that's what he meant.
Horse just to let you know the first game where we hope to bring sunshine to some underpriviliged children is likely to be Lithuania where the standard of living is definitely not on a par with ours here in Scotland.
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TAMB Sunshine Appeal show the true face of the Tartan Army remember "one beer less" can make one hell of a difference
The future is bright the future is Scottish
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Total Posts: 1592 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 2:48 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Ally Macabre
More Than Words |
I know what Horse is saying. And I understand what you're saying too.
It seems that some people feel the need to question the motives behind this appeal. Personally, I'm more worried about the motives of people that would try to undermine it.
I know most of the guys that have aligned themselves behind this appeal - and suggesting that this is an exercise in PR or some kind of 'mutual appreciation society' could not be further from the truth.
Judge the Sunshine Appeal from its results. And don't feel obliged to support it if you don't like what it's doing.
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Total Posts: 1710 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 3:01 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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ScottishMagpie
Talks too much |
Lets be clear, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular just making a general observation.
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Total Posts: 110 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 3:35 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Tam
GET A LIFE!!! |
Ally,
you have to respect people's right to anonymity, even when they don't agree with you!!!!
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Note: All opinions expressed above are that of the author and in no way respresent any club, organisation or disorganisation
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Total Posts: 643 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 4:23 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Ghaax
GET A LIFE!!! |
Yeah - but if that is their true opinion why should they need to hide?
Bit like they last time you posted Horse.
I've no' been to Iceland or the Faroes but if you really believe there are no underprivilaged people in Germany then you're kidding yerself.
Maybe some people need to go back and read what this is about before they get up on their soapboxes.
Yes - certainly you need to be able to express your opinion but some of the remarks are so wide of the mark they might as well be posted on an English board.
Magpie - luckily I never hud the pleasure of hearin' that album! 
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Total Posts: 790 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 8:15 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
I would be surprised if there was one country in the world without underprivilaged kids. I don't think that it is fair that because a country is perceived to be rich we should ignore it.
The exact same attitude I see adversly affecting Aberdeen's financial support from the government here..
(Edited by Lamia at 9:44 pm on July 22, 2002)
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Three vermillion snakes of female face. The smallest motion, filled with grace.
By faint degrees, voice, lute and pleasure ceased. A deadly silence step by step increased......
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Total Posts: 2400 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 8:20 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Ghaax
GET A LIFE!!! |
Probably very true Lamia - I just didn't want to comment on oor Viking cousins without having been there.
Certainly what is probably the richest country in the world has some of the worst poverty I've witnessed.
Also, being underprivilaged doesn't neccessarily equate to lack of wealth, or certainly not solely to this.
There are privilages that disabled or orphaned people can't just take for granted, even if they have money.
Horse - perhaps you would like to seriously give us your views and ideas?
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Total Posts: 790 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:32 pm on July 22, 2002 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Ghaax I may be entirely wrong but I don't think Horse is actually disagreeing with this particular point.
However as has been said before deciding how to distribute the funds will be a challenge and as in everything in life everyone may not agree.
In the end of the day its about doing the best we can...
(Edited by Lamia at 8:11 am on July 23, 2002)
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Three vermillion snakes of female face. The smallest motion, filled with grace.
By faint degrees, voice, lute and pleasure ceased. A deadly silence step by step increased......
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Total Posts: 2400 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 8:08 am on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Jam
GET A LIFE!!! |
Seems tae me Horse is just making a wee joke. Forget about it. Some folk will take the pash every noo and then. Some will disagree about the appeal. So what??? This appears to be a decently motivated campaign and will probably get good results. I widnae worry aboot the odd bit of dissent. Horse's remark seemed like more of a joke (and a typically Scottish deadpan one at that) rather than anything else.
(Edited by Jam at 9:01 am on July 23, 2002)
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Yer haverin pash!
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Total Posts: 687 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:00 am on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Horse
Fresh ideas |
Christ, I'm glad I self-censored my original posting or the shit would really have hit the fan!
Jam - thank you for your correct assessment of my comment, it was delivered exactly as you say, in the spirit of black humour. If it offended anyone, then good, because if you believe in what you are doing then you should be able to take a bit of shit and defend your motives.
Ally Macabre - It is unfair to accuse me of lack of bottle - this board allows anonymity - and I choose to exercise it. I would back my views with or without the cloak. If you wish to have a closed discussion list, free from dissent, then you should all create one. My solitary post yesterday was a drop in the ocean compared to all the subserviant and nicey-nicey messages elsewhere.
I do not doubt the honesty and ideals of most people involved in the appeal. I also accept that the motives are mostly harmless. However, I don't like the constant emphasis on money-raising and charity, where everyone seems to have turned into Bono or Bob Geldof.
Ghaax - I think the idea of raising money for kids in Germany is crazy. Imagine German fans arrived in Glasgow with hand-outs for East End urchins! Why switch the targets depending on who we are playing, go where the real need is, not where the cameras are. In my opinion,and fund-raising for Germany would smack of desperation to show how great the Tartan Army is! East European orphanages is one thing, but come on!
Your remark about me being better on an "English board" sums up my fears about the motivation of some people - it's all about showing how great Scottish fans are compared to the English, and the charity element is merely a tool in the armoury.
Horse
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Total Posts: 14 | Joined May 2002 | Posted on: 11:34 am on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Horse
Fresh ideas |
Ghaax,
PS Glad you remember me - I have only posted 7 times compared to your 690 and Ally Macabre's 1527!
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Total Posts: 14 | Joined May 2002 | Posted on: 11:40 am on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Ally Macabre
More Than Words |
My only problem with anonymous postings is its like ringing the door bell and running away. You're basically not accountable for your words. That's fine for throwing in opinions and joining in discussions. But when it comes to open criticism of individuals then I feel that's something that should be accountable.
Aside from that, if you've got specific concerns about the Sunshine Appeal then you would achieve more by voicing them in an honest manner, rather than veiling them in a sarcastic attack.
Your second post raises real concerns that should be seriously considered. I agree with with much of what you're saying and I fully understand the problems you are high lighting.
I'm not a spokesperson for this appeal, and at the moment I have no idea whether or not I shall commit myself to it. However, I know many of the people involved and your post is grossly unfair on them.
1528 posts now, and your point is?
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Total Posts: 1710 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 12:13 pm on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Mick North Croy
GET A LIFE!!! |
Horse,
i think you are way off the mark in your last post.
There are people on this board who have put in loads of time and effort to get this appeal going and hundreds more who have parted with hard earned cash.
There has been sales of T-shirts, songbooks, badges and fundraisers such as, parachute jumps, sponsored walks, fantasy football and other ventures that escape me at the minute.
All good work and YES worthy of a wee pat on the back from ourselves
BUT, in my opinion, we are doing this because we want to help, NOT because we want to show how great we are or say "look at us, we`re brilliant"
we dont look for publicity or plaudits
were just a wee group of Scotland supporters trying to make a wee difference to some less fortunate than ourselves
all the best 
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Mick. Support the TAMB Sunshine Appeal
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Total Posts: 790 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 3:31 pm on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Horse
Fresh ideas |
Ally,
To answer your points.
I have no concerns about the Sunshine appeal as such. I appreciate that some Scotland fans wish to use the football connection to raise money - so be it. I had concerns about the Kemil fund because I don't think money should go direct to individuals as it did. In any case, there are/were many charities working in Bosnia.
I certainly didn't criticise any individuals on this board.
I mentioned the number of posts as (a) I was suprised that my last post ages ago was remembered, and (b) that in the sea of messages of other contributers my words are fairly insignificant.
Horse
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Total Posts: 14 | Joined May 2002 | Posted on: 4:00 pm on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Horse,
I see I did misunderstand you!
"all the subserviant and nicey-nicey messages elsewhere.
I also accept that the motives are mostly harmless.
where everyone seems to have turned into Bono or Bob Geldof.
it's all about showing how great Scottish fans are compared to the English, and the charity element is merely a tool in the armoury.
In my opinion,and fund-raising for Germany would smack of desperation to show how great the Tartan Army is!
East European orphanages is one thing, but come on! Why switch the targets depending on who we are playing, go where the real need is, not where the cameras are"
I think it is quite clear from the above comments (particularly those bits I have highlighted) that you are attacking people on here even if not by name.
BTW if "mostly harmless" is the best way you can describe people's motives I am sure you can appreciate why some might take offence
"Imagine German fans arrived in Glasgow with hand-outs for East End urchins!"
Furthermore I think you could better describe a possible scenario in this case. If German fans came over here and donated something to a kids home as an act of friendship to underprivileged kids in a country in which they were guests, I for one would not think it strange. But maybe I have a warped view of humanity. (BTW people suffer in richer countries too that's why we have charities for kids, homeless etc in this country!)
BTW as you will have seen from my previous post I respect anyones right to express reservations. I also understand your underlying arguments and do not think anyone who holds such views is evil. I merely disagree with you and in particular how you have chosen to express your views.
(Edited by Lamia at 9:09 pm on July 23, 2002)
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Three vermillion snakes of female face. The smallest motion, filled with grace.
By faint degrees, voice, lute and pleasure ceased. A deadly silence step by step increased......
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Total Posts: 2400 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 5:53 pm on July 23, 2002 | IP
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William Wallace
GET A LIFE!!! |
I don't see what all the fuss is about, what can be wrong with a group of football fans raising money to spend on people less fortunate than themselves in countries that they travel to for football matches. I for one can't see anything sinister about that. I think people I reading too much into it. As for trying to make Scotland fans look better than those south of the border, that's just absurb there's been no mention of anything like that along the line, and besides I think some of the English fans do that job for us.
(Edited by William Wallace at 7:05 pm on July 23, 2002)
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Scotland Forever England 0 - 1 Scotland (Wembley '99) Hutchinson (39')-------We're bought and sold for English gold.
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Total Posts: 608 | Joined Jan. 2002 | Posted on: 7:00 pm on July 23, 2002 | IP
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Ghaax
GET A LIFE!!! |
Horse - to be truthful I just remembered the name not your posts. Wondered if you might have been the Glaswegian(?) singer of the late '80's or thereabouts.
I never said that we should raise money for German kids - I was pointing out that they have underprivilaged kids too.
Maybe we should get the EC to draw up a league showing whos got the largest number of urchins of all the countries?
And I have no wish to go where the cameras are - last thing I want to see is a photo of my ugly mug.
But your point about "go where the real need is" - good idea! What do you suggest?
However, I must say I am disappointed in your response to my other remark about English boards. Surely with the usual tone of your posts (if 9 posts can have a usual tone!) you realised this was tongue in cheek? Regarding the high esteem in which some boards are held? Sarcasm?? No?
Anyway, some people just thought that if we're taking advantage of others hospitality and generally disrupting their lives it might make a nice gesture to give something back.
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Total Posts: 790 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 7:44 pm on July 23, 2002 | IP
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