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ReekySporran
GET A LIFE!!! |
    
IT IS rare that much fuel is needed to stoke the fire of rivalry between Scotland and England over football.
No surprise then that a decision by the BBC to omit an influential Scottish player from a documentary on black professionals has led footballing authorities north of the Border to cry foul.
The player in question is Andrew Watson, whose contribution to the sport's history came to light only recently.
Two years ago Watson was unearthed as the world's first black player, who captained Scotland to victory over England in 1881 and played for Queen's Park, in those days a world force, as far back as 1876.
Tradition has held that Arthur Wharton was the first black professional player - he played for English club Preston North End in 1886.
Despite being fully aware of Watson's legacy, the BBC4 documentary Black Flash: A Century of Black Footballers omits the player on the grounds that he was not technically a professional.
But Ged O'Brien, the director of the Scottish Football Museum at Hampden Park, said: "Perhaps we should not be surprised that once again the English media have ignored the enormous contribution of a great Scottish player.
"Up until the time of Pele, Andrew Watson was perhaps the most important black player in the world, so to airbrush him out of a documentary on black players is absurd. He was a fantastic player capable of playing on either side of defence or in midfield and as well as captaining his country to victory went on to become the world's first black footballing administrator.
"This is all the more surprising since BBC Scotland produced an excellent and groundbreaking programme this year on Andrew Watson, a fact of which the BBC in England are certainly aware. This programme is yet to be seen in England despite its importance for world football history, though this latest documentary gets three screenings.
"With a few honourable exceptions, the media in England have failed to pick up on the fact that Watson is not only the new hero for our age, but that he completely eclipses Arthur Wharton of Preston North End, now just the first black professional.
"It is ironic that a programme which documents much of the abuse and hardships black players went through should make such a major omission."
Mr O'Brien added the grounds given for the BBC's omission of the player did not stand up to scrutiny as Watson hailed from an age when the definition of an amateur or professional was irrelevant.
But Geoff Small, producer and director of Black Flash: A Century of Black Footballers, said: "It was a sad omission to make but not an incorrect one.
"We had a long discussion about who would be featured in the programme and from an early stage it was decided that Andrew Watson would not be, even though he was the first black footballer of any kind of merit to achieve great things. This is because the programme is about professional players and not amateurs so we start off with Arthur Wharton.
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All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer – Homer J Simpson
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Total Posts: 2828 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 4:44 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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CUFC England
GET A LIFE!!! |
Yes, absolutely. Of course the only reason that he wasn't included in the programme was because he was Scottish. It's a deliberate effort by the 'E'BC to exclude Scotland.
Give it a rest for god's sake 
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Still only 7.
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Total Posts: 1533 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 5:39 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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Thermopylae
GET A LIFE!!! |
So why wasn't he included then? Given that there was no amateur/professional distinction when he played? Does this mean there were no footballers until someone invented the term "professional"?
Also, a very good BBC Scotland documentary isn't good enough for national broadcasting but this new EBC one is scheduled for three slots already.
Maybe being discriminatory towards Scots is acceptable - but since the point of the programme is equality maybe the BBC need to take a look at Geoff Smalls personal agenda...
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I've got your number!
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Total Posts: 1851 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 5:51 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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BEN
Opinionated Wind Bag |
I am emailing the BBC on this - do not see any relevance in amateur distinction and given that Queens Park and Preston were probably the Uk's (and probably the worlds) most successful clubs in the 1880s he certainly merits inclusion as the first black international captain in a programme designed for a British audience.
As you say it appears from Mr Small's viewpoint being being discriminatory towards Scots is acceptable to the BBC - it is clear they have erroneously focused on England only, whether intentionally or not and therefore have deservedly led themselves open to criticism.
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"I love playing in Britain because the players are so close to the crowd." Eric Cantona, when at Leeds United.
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Total Posts: 228 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 6:18 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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ReekySporran
GET A LIFE!!! |
Mr.Small's excuse for not including Watson is laughable in the extreme. I would hazard a guess that perhaps it was not a deliberate attempt to exclude Watston, but in actual fact Small had never heard of him due to poor/lazy research and a supposition that Wharton was 'obviously' the First, and was caught out. He tried furiously to come up with a reasonable excuse, but failied miserably.
CUFC - I think you are the one to give your unwanted opinions a rest.............permanently. Unless of course you can come up with a more plausible argument why the player was excluded?
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All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer – Homer J Simpson
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Total Posts: 2828 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 6:51 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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blackearnside
GET A LIFE!!! |
CUFC as a fair minded man as you regularly are surely you can see the injustice in this? Or are you just going to prove all your sensible posts wrong by reverting to calling us all whinging Scots thus further proving the stereotype of all that is wrong?
Now I say give it a rest for god's sake accept than when we say there is discrimination against Scotland in the BBC maybe we are right. As you know this is not an anti English rant just facts.
Reeky well pointed out by the way and in view of recent posts this rates in my top 5 along with Scottie's hospital visit.
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Alba mo gradhach dachaigh duthaich
Blackearnside Tartan Army
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Total Posts: 1064 | Joined Jan. 2002 | Posted on: 8:51 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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Clifton
Talks too much |
I was about to say the same thing CUFC!
Seriously, is it just us or are the Scots who frequent this board not the most paranoid bunch you have ever met? I've got a theory on this. Didn't David Icke have Scottish connections?!
Yes chaps, secretly the BBC is a huge English propaganda machine run by a secretive cabal of ultra patriotic English nationalists with the sole intention of destroying Scottish national identity and rewriting history itself! This is evidenced by subtley indoctrinating Scots through conditioning, such as not showing Scottish international matches in Southern regions, and ommitting such legendary Scottish folkheroes such as Andrew Watson from epoch defining documentaries such as Black Flash!
Yes, and as i write Lord Lucan is rolling me a joint and Shergar is doing Elvis up the glitter outside my window.......................   
LIGHTEN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THATS why I love this board, always cheers me up, always good for a laugh. That my Scottish friends is why i come on this board, and i love you for it.......... 
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I have a dream...........................
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Total Posts: 138 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 9:09 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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blackearnside
GET A LIFE!!! |
Clifton I am glad to see that you now fully understand the concept of the BBC well spotted.
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Alba mo gradhach dachaigh duthaich
Blackearnside Tartan Army
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Total Posts: 1064 | Joined Jan. 2002 | Posted on: 9:31 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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Thermopylae
GET A LIFE!!! |
A tad embellished there Clifton old chap. Perhaps there's some middle ground?
ie. They're just ignorant, self important c*nts.
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I've got your number!
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Total Posts: 1851 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 9:42 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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tartangladbach
Fresh ideas |
liverpool echo tonight; COMPARING MCFADDEN & ROONEY, TO MAKE A DIRECT COMPARISION BETWEEN THE ABILITY OF THE TWO PLAYERS WOULD BE TO WEIGH DOWN MCFADDEN WITH AN UNFAIR BURDEN. of course because faddy could only manage one pie, compared too fifty six!
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Total Posts: 2 | Joined Sep. 2003 | Posted on: 9:55 pm on Sep. 25, 2003 | IP
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Kernaghan
GET A LIFE!!! |
1. No such thing as the EBC.
2. A century of black footballers? 100, 99, 98... I make that 1903. When did Andrew Watson retire from the beautiful game?
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one cross
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Total Posts: 2621 | Joined Nov. 2001 | Posted on: 1:21 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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Bzzzz
One and Only! |
When the e******h decided he wasn't significant?
yet another example...
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"CHEATS!FU**ING DIVIN CHEATS!"
Dundee philosopher Christian "fu**ing" Daillys views on German tactics, Sept 10 2003
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Total Posts: 6023 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 1:26 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Quote: from Kernaghan on 1:21 am on Sep. 26, 2003
2. A century of black footballers? 100, 99, 98... I make that 1903. When did Andrew Watson retire from the beautiful game?
Now that's a better argument (depending on which is the last black player they profile that is... ). So why didn't Small just use it??
(Edited by Lamia at 7:57 am on Sep. 26, 2003)
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The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organised violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westeners never do. - Samuel P. Huntington
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Total Posts: 5118 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 7:56 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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haddie
Talks too much |
The BBC sees Scotland as an add on,a bit like part of the world service,I wouldn't be suprised if they really did have no idea who Watson was why would they ,they are making a programme about their own countrys past not ours,until we have our own media then we have to put up with this and we should content ourselves that Scotland had the first black footballer as as far as we are aware, because if we are going to get upset every time the BBC gets something wrong in relation to Scotland then we will be a long time annoyed.
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Total Posts: 116 | Joined Mar. 2002 | Posted on: 7:58 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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Gemmills Goal
GET A LIFE!!! |
Well - it wouldn't be the first occasion in recent times that the BBC used journalistic licence to achieve an aim (is it Mr Gilligan?).
As far as journalists are concerned, information is just raw material that needs to be mined for facts, human interest, background, and entertainment. But there's no hard and fast rules on what priority each should represent in any story. Still facts are facts and shouldn't be ignored just because it suits an agenda. I don't know what Mr Small's agenda was, but it APPEARS to be to show that England has always been in football's vanguard. I didn't see the show referred to, but for those that did, did it make any mention of the background information that gives any story true relevance.
Such as it was a Scot that was England's first professional player, it was a Scot that set up the Football League and it was a Scot that was REGARDED as the first black professional footballer in Britain. Or - and importantly - that it might have been the influence of Watson that prompted Wharton to pull on his boots? The latter I can't establish as a fact. But the point is, to do justice to any story, and your professional integrity - hello, Mr Gilligan - calls for all angles to be explored and placed in an overall context which lets a reader or viewer decide for himself what the real story is. Anything else is selective reporting.
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I don't trust camels - or anyone else that can go a week without a drink.
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Total Posts: 1638 | Joined Jan. 2002 | Posted on: 8:39 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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BEN
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Quote: from Kernaghan on 1:21 am on Sep. 26, 2003
1. No such thing as the EBC.
2. A century of black footballers? 100, 99, 98... I make that 1903. When did Andrew Watson retire from the beautiful game?
It would appear that Wharton should be excluded too on the 100 years basis!
plus Clifton you're an imbecile if you can't see we have some cause for complaint at lazy BBC journalism (to give them the benefit of the doubt) being imposed on our country I'm afraid
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"I love playing in Britain because the players are so close to the crowd." Eric Cantona, when at Leeds United.
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Total Posts: 228 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 9:19 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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ReekySporran
GET A LIFE!!! |
2. A century of black footballers? 100, 99, 98... I make that 1903. When did Andrew Watson retire from the beautiful game?
On that basis I should not expect to see any mention of Arthur Wharton in the programme? Stop trying to be clever Kernie, it doesn't suit you.
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All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer – Homer J Simpson
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Total Posts: 2828 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:28 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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wonderkid69
GET A LIFE!!! |
Clifton/CUFC,don't see you have an argument here boys.Call it what you want,lazy journalism,selective reporting or just plain old good fashioned English bias but surely you can see or point on this??
Clifton....stop hogging that joint,pass it over here
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The Christian Gospel 10:09
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Total Posts: 1162 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:58 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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Jam
GET A LIFE!!! |
agree with Reeky's and Thermo's interpretation. It's not a deliberate attempt to exclude Scotland, it's lazy journalism and research combined with self-importance where they can't admit their mistake they come up with some bullsh*t story about so-called professionalism to attempt (without success) to cover their backs. In some respects Scotland is an add-on and will not get the coverage it expects.
However, being a tiny partner in population terms in this Union, you've got to expect a media that is dominated by the bigger partner.
Attempts at the Scottish 6 news have come and gone and we are left with the Newsnicht debacle. There's a political solution to all of this. If you don't support it, then the label of whinging north-Brit is pretty descriptive in my opinion.
kernaghan - point 1: agreement. point 2: with that kind of lame excuse, do you work for the BBC? There response should have been - "sorry, we didn't research it and got it wrong, or we didn't include him cos he's not English", or perhaps most realistically "we didn't research it cos he's not English" - take yer pick
Kernie, CUFC, Clifton - other than mocking the perceived paranoia of those talking of English bias you have all failed to give a plausible reason for its omission. You could keep up the act and try and cover your backs just as the BBC tried and failed to do....or you could admit that on this occasion there is some justification behind the paranoia.
(Edited by Jam at 11:38 am on Sep. 26, 2003)
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Yer haverin pash!
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Total Posts: 1935 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 11:17 am on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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Kernaghan
GET A LIFE!!! |
I'm not trying to make excuses for the BBC, I hate it.
My only point, Reeky dearest, was that the 'century' in the programme's title was yet another piece of BBC laziness.
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one cross
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Total Posts: 2621 | Joined Nov. 2001 | Posted on: 2:31 pm on Sep. 26, 2003 | IP
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