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Argentina78
Something to say |
    
I was taking a look at a match programme I bought on eBay recently and could not believe the choice of winger that Scotland had for the match with England at Wembley in 1969.
The wingers listed were Jimmy Johnstone, Willie Henderson, Tommy McLean, Charlie Cooke and Eddie Gray, an impressive list to say the least.
Consider this though, at the same time Scotland could also call on the services of Peter Lorimer, Peter Marinello,Davie Wilson, Willie Johnston, Bobby Lennox,John Hughes and Willie Morgan and probably some others that I have missed. A good number of these guys would come into the class of top International class and 3 of them I would say are World Class and at that time, Scotland had the choice of 12 excellent wingers. Imagine how good it would be to even have a couple of this standard these days. It seems incredible that we failed to qualify for World Cups from the 50s up until 1974.
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Total Posts: 83 | Joined Mar. 2003 | Posted on: 11:31 pm on April 16, 2003 | IP
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min
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Aye, nostalga is a great thing, but as you touched on, this lot was the greatest bunch of under-achievers in Scottish football history!!! They should not be allowed out in puibplic!!! When you think that the comparitive mediocre Roxburgh squad in Euro '92 qualified for the last 8 and were then officially ranked 5th in Europe, the 60's & 70's version did not deserve to wear the jersey!!!
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Total Posts: 226 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 11:48 pm on April 16, 2003 | IP
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Giant train set
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Who let this min in.
Officially 5th in one tournament when some better teams did not even qualify.
But it has to be said that Roxburgh and a lot of what Craig brown never got the credit they deserved.
Now away and boil your heid.
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And William Wallace said to his men on the hill waiting for battle to start,
"Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Yun diddle un diddle un diddle un din na."
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Total Posts: 244 | Joined Mar. 2003 | Posted on: 12:06 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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MiD
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Scotland did qualify for the World Cup during this period, 1962 I believe ( but stand to be corrected). They did not go because they did not feel worthy because they were not first in the Home Championship.
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Total Posts: 210 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 12:09 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Giant train set
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Correct. Canna mind if it was 62. but it was in south america. if that helps
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And William Wallace said to his men on the hill waiting for battle to start,
"Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Yun diddle un diddle un diddle un din na."
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Total Posts: 244 | Joined Mar. 2003 | Posted on: 12:11 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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MiD
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Chile
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Total Posts: 210 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 12:12 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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min
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Quote: from Giant train set on 12:06 am on April 17, 2003
Who let this min in.
Officially 5th in one tournament when some better teams did not even qualify.
But it has to be said that Roxburgh and a lot of what Craig brown never got the credit they deserved.
Now away and boil your heid.
When some better teams did not qualify?!!? What the f**k does that mean?!? So, should Brazil, not officially be the world champions, coz Holland didn't qualify for Japan/Korea?!? Everybody has to qualify and everybody who qualifies has to compete in the finals - it just gets on my tits that everybody harks back to the prima donnas of the '60's & '70's that despite having the (alleged) ability, achieved precicely feck all!!!
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Total Posts: 226 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 12:20 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Poacher
Something to say |
Have you ever thought that maybe these guys were considered good because there were relatively few decent teams around. Eastern Europeans, Scandanavians, Africans etc have come a long way since the 60's. The game has developed since those days, it's more professional, faster, technical, the players are fitter and I would suggest that many of the players you mention would struggle in todays game. In other sports eg athletics, golf, motor racing etc, it is easier to compare across the different eras. Sportsmen are always improving and will continue to do so. No I don't think the players from the 60s are better than the current crop, we just haven't progressed as much as other countries.
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Total Posts: 96 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 6:07 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Phew,
I thought this thread was about breaking MCTEAGLE's record.....
Good point though Poacher I would agree. I also think that we have lost the characters. Some players have become better than they really were in people's eyes because of the character they had and not their standard of football IMO.
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Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter because nobody listens.---Nick Diamos
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Total Posts: 4258 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 8:13 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Rossy
GET A LIFE!!! |
In 20 years time, we'll all look back with a tear in our eye and say, 'that Jamie McAllister, he was some player...'
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Total Posts: 939 | Joined Nov. 2001 | Posted on: 8:49 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Janco
GET A LIFE!!! |
 
I'm already looking back on the teams of the 90's that way....
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"And if you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium. And you are already dead!"
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Total Posts: 637 | Joined April 2002 | Posted on: 9:00 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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CTV
Opinionated Wind Bag |
We didn't qualify for the World Cup in Chile in 1962. We did, however, qualify for Switzerland in 1954 and Sweden in 1958 and were horsed in both tournaments, getting one draw in five matches. Uruguay 7 Scotland 0 was a particular low point in the Swiss competition. That was us until 1974...
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Total Posts: 172 | Joined Oct. 2002 | Posted on: 10:22 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Argentina78
Something to say |
What a lot of claptrap, have none of you guys ever seen the Celtic v Inter European Cup Final in 1967. Celtic a team of home grown Scots played the Italians off the pitch. They boasted World stars as Mazzola and Sarti in goal, so I would not say that just because other countries have improved aand we have stood still that these past players were not great.
The common thread in most players who reach the very top seems to be poverty, like in boxing. Pele, Maradona,and nearly every World Star you could mention generally came from a poor upbringing. Most of the great players Scotland have had, Baxter, Law, Bremner, Jimmy Johnstone, came from the tanner ba period, where players learnt their skills in the street, with no proper footballs, flash boots or training, it just came naturally.
Next you guys will be saying that Beckham is a better player than the best player ever to com from the British Isles, George Best.
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Total Posts: 83 | Joined Mar. 2003 | Posted on: 11:25 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Poacher
Something to say |
Those were the days! Whole family used to sit round the fire listening to the radio......kids respected their elders.......a man did an honest day's work.....people were happier.......2 carmels for penny......Pash!
I've watched lots of the so-called classic games from the 60s and 70s. Sure there are moments of individual skill, but generally they remind me of our Sunday pub team......excitable lads who enjoy a laugh and can't wait to get off the pitch for their next pint and bit of fluff.
Natural talent will always be there. In the past that was enough, now it needs to be nurtured. This is Scotland's failing.
Scot Gemmill would have been a superstar in 1967!
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Total Posts: 96 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 11:58 am on April 17, 2003 | IP
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randers
GET A LIFE!!! |
You can't blame the players of the 60's say, for playing the style of football of the 60s. How else would they play? It looks like simple fitba to our eyes cos fitba's moved on since then. But the players themselves, if they grew up today would surely play the fitba style of today. (After all it's easy to say how would some of today's players cope with 70's tackles flying in from behind them?). I reckon that the players of the past would still have their skills and would be good today too. They's just play slighlty difeferently from how they were brought up to play it then.
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dream on...
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Total Posts: 359 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 1:35 pm on April 17, 2003 | IP
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ReekySporran
GET A LIFE!!! |
It was the 1950 Word Cup in Brasil that we qualified for as runners-up to England in the Home Internationals but the SFA said prior to our last game against England (which I think we had to draw to win the Home Internationals) that we wouldn't take part unless we were British Champions. We lost 0-1 after Willie Bauld of Hearts hit the post, so didn't go tae the party, and we think todays officials are bad!
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www.sporran-legion.co.uk
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Total Posts: 1998 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 10:30 pm on April 17, 2003 | IP
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Giant train set
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Sorry min for being a day late here.
THe point about 5th in a tournament when better teams did not qualify.
Denmark won the thing and were there on default.
8 teams from the whole of Europe always leaves a lot of good teams out and we had a no bad group to win from.
Even then other results went our way. Romania or bulgaria could have easily been there instead.
Both france and England were shocked by Sweden and France, and I think we ourselves were shocked against the CIS.
But there were many European teams arguably who should have been there before ourselves.
Yugoslavia, Spain, Portugal, Italy.
So 5th was only a mathematical finish and in no way a reason to get carried away.
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And William Wallace said to his men on the hill waiting for battle to start,
"Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Yun diddle un diddle un diddle un din na."
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Total Posts: 244 | Joined Mar. 2003 | Posted on: 10:55 pm on April 17, 2003 | IP
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min
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Still can't quite understand why you're trying to deride Scotlands greatest ever footballing achievment, but whatever...
Quote: from Giant train set on 10:55 pm on April 17, 2003
Sorry min for being a day late here.
The point about 5th in a tournament when better teams did not qualify.
1. Denmark won the thing and were there on default.
2. 8 teams from the whole of Europe always leaves a lot of good teams out and we had a no bad group to win from.
3. Even then other results went our way. Romania or bulgaria could have easily been there instead.
4. Both france and England were shocked by Sweden and France, and I think we ourselves were shocked against the CIS.
5. But there were many European teams arguably who should have been there before ourselves.
Yugoslavia, Spain, Portugal, Italy.
6. So 5th was only a mathematical finish and in no way a reason to get carried away.
1. Denmark won the thing by eliminating France & England at the group stages and beating Sweden & Germany at the knock-out stages - no mean feat!!! Other teams have qualified for tournaments "by default" and I thought you would have been glad that Denmark got there via this route as they were obviously one of the better teams at this time and tournaments do not seem to be valid (in your view) unless the better teams have qualified.
2. 8 teams from the whole of Europe really proves my point! to qualify for the last 8 of an international tournament is in my opinion (obviously not yours) a major achievement. The group we were in was also not the easiest with a Stoichkov inspired Bulgaria (who were World cup Semi-finalists 2 years later) and a Romanian team that included the flair of Hagi.
3. How do you work this out?!? Every team played each other home and away away and we came out on top - fair and square!
4. Don't understand your point there...
5. Why should they have been there before ouselves?!? - they failed to qualify, we didn't... Basically, if you don't qualify, you're not good enough and therefor, shouldn't be there.
6. Not getting carried away, but it's still the best performance that a Scottish team has ever achieved (including the mythical '60's & '70's sides).
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Total Posts: 226 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 1:13 am on April 18, 2003 | IP
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geordieboy
GET A LIFE!!! |
Quote: from Poacher on 11:58 am on April 17, 2003
Scot Gemmill would have been a superstar in 1967!
He's a super star now!
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Sweet Caroline, Sparkling wine!
Oh Oh Oh!
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Total Posts: 1969 | Joined April 2002 | Posted on: 1:17 am on April 18, 2003 | IP
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Giant train set
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Min
We qualified against some average teams. Yes it was fair and square and I am proud of what they done in the group stages.
We were lucky to be in a group full of average teams as only the champions qualified this being my point about great teams that could have been there if they were not in high class competitive groups.
When we got there we did not embarass ourselves, but only 1 win in 3. A great end result but hardly a great overall performance.
4 years later, UEFA increased the tournament to 16 teams. They themselves realised the amount of quality teams that were missing out to teams with easier qualifying groups.
The team done us proud results wise. Ignoring all the other factors, we done brilliant.
But to insinuate a European ranking in the top 8 never mind 5th is taking it a wee bit to far.
I can't remember if we played that well against the CIS anyway. Our tournament was over and they had to win to guarantee going through after drawing with both Holland and Germany I think.
Thus, they left gaps at the back which got bigger the more desperate they got.
I don't know about comparing this with the 60's and 70's. I just wish we had the players of the 60's and 70's and the management and some of the SFA aspects of the 90's.
One day, maybe we will have both.
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And William Wallace said to his men on the hill waiting for battle to start,
"Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Ba ra da, Yun diddle un diddle un diddle un din na."
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Total Posts: 244 | Joined Mar. 2003 | Posted on: 12:24 am on April 19, 2003 | IP
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Tartan Army Message Board
What a differnce 30 years makes
