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The Kilt
Opinionated Wind Bag |
    
A points system is a system and makes some sense, it is not an exact science.
however
a Ballot is not system.
Everybody (sfa, media and fans) complain about home attandances, introduce a points system including home games and it must help.
For folks not able to make every game. Dont worry most can not make everygame.....continue to support scotland!!
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Supporting Scotland has cost my girlfriend & loads of cash ...i have never been happier
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Total Posts: 238 | Joined April 2002 | Posted on: 6:37 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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VTA
Opinionated Wind Bag |
This is all a bit pash. It's a TRAVEL club. People join to TRAVEL. Its been running for ages and very successfully. Anyone can join and apply for tickets - dead easy. There is no problem with new blood in the TA - Recent high profile games against Belgium and France just gave everyone easy excuses to get to a coupla games on the cheap with tickets easily obtainable - some of the friendly games are often the best and you can always get tickets for them. If it comes to ballot then so be it - I have no problems missing out on a ticket to a guy who has taken in more games than me....and I am certainly not gonna moan on that he's not more loyal, just better off (but I would still make the trip!) And I am very unsure about people trying to say what games i should go to and how to behave to make a better atmosphere......er for who??? Its all about choices really. You can choose to join the STC or not. You can choose to fill in the application form. You can choose to book your travel anyway. You can choose to make sure the game you are going to is one you will definitely get tickets for. Or you can choose to do none of the above and moan on about all them champagne charlies enjoying themselves in the faroes (pissing down and freezing - living in a tent) when you're stuck at home counting your Hampden programmes!! Is it not straightforward or am I missing something!!! I was just lookin at photies from the last Lithuania game and there must have only been about 300-400 TA there....loadsa seats all over the place and that was on a Saturday(and have you seen the stadium!-see photos section). I sometimes wonder if the size of the support gets exaggerated. I am not convinced there will be 1000s in Iceland....I know when we speak on here it seems like everyone is going everywhere but thats not always the case.
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Total Posts: 208 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 7:29 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
VTA,
Missing games is not always due to choosing to miss them. If you can't afford to go then I do not think that is a choice you have made.
That is my only point on this whole issue. Yes if you have plenty of money and holidays you can choose to do whatever you like. But if you haven't and can only go to one away game then I think its wrong if you have no chance of a ticket.
That is why I like the split between a ballot and allocation based on attendance.
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Three vermillion snakes of female face. The smallest motion, filled with grace.
By faint degrees, voice, lute and pleasure ceased. A deadly silence step by step increased......
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Total Posts: 2468 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 7:43 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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VTA
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Very true Lamia as I can testify falling into the poorer end of the TA and hardly any time off this year. And if anyone can only go to one game then they should choose a game that they know they will get a ticket for (which covers most games) - they are not only guaranteed a ticket but a good time. This question really only gets raised about more appealling matches and I don't ever hear guys moaning about the lack of support in Bosnia or Belarus and demanding more people go to these games from Scotland so it works both ways. And if finance was the key issue the last trip anyone should be contemplating is Iceland because that has mortgage written all over it. Also for many TA every Scotland game is an "away" game and we often find ourselves missing out. I had a ticket to England v Scotland in 99, but work committments meant I could only travel midweek for the game - the only flight I could get was £700 and I had to pass it by. Sometimes thats just the way it is and you have to look forward to the next game. I do think the STC works really well and looks after its membership as fairly as is possible, if its not broke as they say...
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Total Posts: 208 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 8:14 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Fair points VTA. I wasn't really looking at specific examples and it does in the end of the day depend on the fixtures and ticket allocation.
The only thing I would take slight issue with is the demand for the more popular fixtures. They do tend to generally be for the cheaper trips and/or crunch matches. I would not critise anyone for choosing/wanting to go to these if it is to be their only trip. Yes for those who can go on any trip they want all trips have their own merits and many enjoy the smaller ones the best. But in the end of the day it is about supporting a national football team and the crunch/big matches are of significant importance so of course many folk want to go more if its the only trip they will get.
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Three vermillion snakes of female face. The smallest motion, filled with grace.
By faint degrees, voice, lute and pleasure ceased. A deadly silence step by step increased......
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Total Posts: 2468 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 8:27 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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Bzzzz
One and Only! |
Aye but the big crunch games, the more that go the better...
does any Scotland fan deserve to go more than another Scotland fan? in my opinion, no.
SOme people have the circumstance, the money and the time, others dont, is not necesarilly their fault, just the way life is... the first come first served way is fine by me. I'd rather someone had the ticket than it be sitting at home wi me. and we aw know we cannae gie tickets away! 
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Quia quamdiu Centum ex nobis viui remanserint, nuncquam Anglorum dominio aliquatenus volumus subiugari.
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Total Posts: 3332 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 8:32 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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VTA
Opinionated Wind Bag |
At the end of the day I am happy to go with the majority. And I am all for including as many as people as possible. If we sell our allocation to all our games that can only be good for the support of our team wherever it may be. I should really say IMHO because thats all it is. I suppose a sub question would be how many people go purely to support the team and how many go just for a razz up with the football being a bit of a chance for a recovery period.
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Total Posts: 208 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:00 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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ReekySporran
GET A LIFE!!! |
I think we can safely say that those that travel reasonably regulary want a points sytem or similar, whereas those who are new to the TA or don't travel to many away games want an open ballot system. Thats understandable.
At the end of the day I think we can agree that there is definately a need for some sort of system one way or another. Either the SFA say its open ballot for all games, or they introduce a system that rewards those who travel to the most games. Surely its better than what we have just now where the SFA send out a piece of paper asking you to tick a box, maybe box A gets more votes for this game, but box B might get more votes for the second game, so nobody knows whats going to happen next.
I don't agree with the halfway house system where a percentage of tickets are allocated on a points basis and the rest in a ballot, again people don't know where they stand. Its either one way or another for me.
As for lobbying my local ATAC club, I wouldn't know where to start, but I understand that ATAC take note of what is posted on here so lets hope that its at least discussed at their next meeting.
IMHO
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www.sporran-legion.co.uk
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Total Posts: 747 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 9:18 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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William Wallace
GET A LIFE!!! |
The problem I find is that although I am 'new to the TA' as far as going to away games is concerned it is not through choice, it is because I have previously been too young to travel abroad on my own. It is not the case that I have just discovered the TA and the joys of following the national team and have just decided to join in, I would have given my right arm to go to any of the matches, whether they were vital or 'just' friendlies. I've been following Scotland since as far as I can remember whether that be watching it at home with pals or at the pub with my dad or whatever, I still have the same passion for the team as the next man. For me, the rest of the festivities (partying and drinking etc.) are just a by-product of following Scotland and I would be happy to go even without them and I'm sure this is the case for most of the TA. As for the system of ticket allocation, I suppose it's only fair that priority is given to regualr travellers, I just hope that I don't find myself in a catch-22 situation but I suppose because there are usually not any availabilty problems with the 'smaller' games, there is no chance that this will happen. The fact is, most of us will be looking forward to the Denmark game just as much as Germany away.
(Edited by William Wallace at 9:40 pm on July 11, 2002)
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Scotland Forever England 0 - 1 Scotland (Wembley '99) Hutchinson (39')-------We're bought and sold for English gold.
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Total Posts: 642 | Joined Jan. 2002 | Posted on: 9:34 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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William Wallace
GET A LIFE!!! |
For the record, I'd go with whatever the members of the STC decide, we just have to accept that not everyones gonnae getb a ticket all the time and be happy that there is a demand to watch Scotland. On the subject of home attendances having an effect, would this make much of a difference? If you're wanting tickets to an away game, the chances are you'll have been to as many of the home games as you could possibly manage.
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Scotland Forever England 0 - 1 Scotland (Wembley '99) Hutchinson (39')-------We're bought and sold for English gold.
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Total Posts: 642 | Joined Jan. 2002 | Posted on: 9:45 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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Ally Macabre
More Than Words |
WW said:
"For me, the rest of the festivities (partying and drinking etc.) are just a by-product of following Scotland and I would be happy to go even without them."
Is this 'cos you're under age?
From the above posts we seem to agree that:-
Most trips there are enough tickets to go round.
And new TA should not be excluded.
Simple. If you are new, target the games where there will be plenty tickets.
I remember some years back sitting next to this big ugly bloke at Hampden. He asked me if I went to all the games, and I apologetically explained that I couldn't really go to every home match 'cos I lived in Aberdeen and it's too far away.
He then explained that he went to every game, home and away, and he lived in Shetland!
A straight ballot is not fair on those people that make sacrifices to go to every game.
TAC suggested right back at the start that it should be split 70% to regular travellers, 30% in a ballot. I disagree - it should be 80/20!
(And I now go to all the home games).
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Total Posts: 1755 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 11:02 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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William Wallace
GET A LIFE!!! |
"Is this 'cos you're under age?"
Aye well, fair point. 
(Edited by William Wallace at 11:13 pm on July 11, 2002)
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Scotland Forever England 0 - 1 Scotland (Wembley '99) Hutchinson (39')-------We're bought and sold for English gold.
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Total Posts: 642 | Joined Jan. 2002 | Posted on: 11:07 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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Marky
Opinionated Wind Bag |
A few points....
VTA,
Agree with everything you have said.
Lamia,
Personally I don't think Scotland are in a position to treat any match as a crunch game. That implies taking certain matches for granted. I can honestly say that when I'm sitting in the Stadium in the Faroes prior to the game, I be thinking that the upcoming match is every bit as "big/crunch" as the Germany game next September. Hold your hand up if you didn't wipe your extremely sweaty brow and let out a huge sigh of relief, that feckin' baltic night in San Marino when Matt Elliot scored our first goal with about 20 mins to go. They really are all big/crunch games for us now. If people want to hold out for what they see as a crunch game then I think its their problem if they don't get a ticket. If they apply for all of them, they're sure to get at least one probably more.
Finally,
I definitely don't think you can include home games. Firstly for the reason mentioned by VTA i.e. TRAVEL club.
Secondly, the SFA have IMO just created a great rule by having to pick up your away tickets in the local country. How could you apply that to home games? What would be stopping someone from buying a ticket even if they didn't intend going. Either not go at all or just give it to their mate. I know if I thought that not attending a home game might jepordise my chance of missing out on away tickets, I'd do that. Who honestly wouldn't?
It won't work. Away games only to count.
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BuddieScot
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Total Posts: 243 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 11:43 pm on July 11, 2002 | IP
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Lamia
GET A LIFE!!! |
Marky,
I certainly agree that we canna take any game for granted but that doesn't stop their being crunch games it also doesn't stop the cheaper and easier venues to get to being understandably popular for those with less money. But I take your point that if ticket allocation is a problem then maybe you need to broaden your horizons (you will note that i said I only "slightly" disagreed on this point)
On the "Travel" club. If it is purely a "Travel" club why do we get to use it as a vehicle for purchasing home tickets. I undertsand that travel why it was set up but don't see why that should proclude it from carrying out other functions. Clubs/organisations often evolve over time as they develop. I am not arguing one way or another on this point but change is often a good thing as it helps develop and incorporate new ideas.
On your last point Marky about home games and buying tickets and then not attending. Very good point well made.
As I said before I think that home game attendance is important but I don't see how you can incorporate it into a ticket allocation system in practical terms.
(Edited by Lamia at 8:07 am on July 12, 2002)
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Three vermillion snakes of female face. The smallest motion, filled with grace.
By faint degrees, voice, lute and pleasure ceased. A deadly silence step by step increased......
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Total Posts: 2468 | Joined Dec. 2001 | Posted on: 8:03 am on July 12, 2002 | IP
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Ally Macabre
More Than Words |
One point about tickets for away games which seems to have been missed in all the arguments I've read.
Anyone that hasn't already booked up for Faroes and Iceland will be too late. And those that have booked are going whether or not the SFA give them tickets.
I honestly feel that fans who are prepared to make that commitment should get first priority.
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Total Posts: 1755 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 11:06 am on July 12, 2002 | IP
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Tartan Sheep
GET A LIFE!!! |
I tend to agree with you Ally - but I think the problem is that we're expecting to get less tickets for Iceland than the number we already need from those who have already booked trips...and so we're all just going to have to keep our fingers crossed that we get tickets.
For the future, though, maybe there should be some kind of way of guaranteeing a ticket when you book your trip - I just booked flights to Lithuania for next April and I'll be mightily pi**ed off if I have to scramble for a ticket, given that I've made a committment to going so far in advance.
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...if we join, we can win. if we win, well then we'll have something that we've never had...a country of our own
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Total Posts: 709 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 11:13 am on July 12, 2002 | IP
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themongoose
Opinionated Wind Bag |
Loads of great points expressed here and very difficult to argue against any of them. As someone who has only started supporting Scotland abroad in the last couple of years I agree that long time serving TA who have made numerous trips should be given priority. I'd like to point out though that these people are not more of a supporter than I am, had my personal circumstances been different over the last 20 years then I too would have had a lot more trips under my belt. It's only now that I've been able to afforf to travel and even then I'm looking at 2 games max per campaign. At the moment Germany is the game I'm looking to attend simply because I think it will be the easiest and cheapest option. I think there is an arguement to include home attendance but is it not the case that the vast majority of the STC will attend these games anyway? I'm sorry but despite my lengthy post I'm not coming up with any solutions other than to say I'll agree with any system that can reward the regular attendees at away games.
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Unhook the West Port and let him gae free
For it's up wi' the bonnets o' Bonnie Dundee
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Total Posts: 212 | Joined Mar. 2002 | Posted on: 11:23 am on July 12, 2002 | IP
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wee john
Opinionated Wind Bag |
ATAC have been mentioned several times in this thread.
ATAC have asked for lots of things in the last couple of years, read the minutes of the meetings on
http://www.tartanarmyclubs.com
ATAC have managed to get a TA section at Hampden
ATAC have been lobbying for a points system
ATAC have got the pipe band into Hampden
ATAC have asked for a season tickets for home qualifying matches and lots of other things to benefit us all.
Read the minutes.
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www.perthshiretartanarmy.com
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Total Posts: 244 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 11:47 am on July 12, 2002 | IP
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tartanali
Fresh ideas |
Sorry but I cannot agree with the statement that those who have booked flights and accomodation should get priority. This will only lead to mass panic booking of flights and accomodation a year in advance.
I booked up for Iceland immediately as I knew there was only one airline that went there. That is a one off case. Matches like Germany and Lithuania are a completely different story as there are millions of routes and different airlines.
I may not book up for Lithuania until a month before the trip but I will definitely be going and I could have told you that even before the draw was made.
(This last bit might only make sense if you know me as I seem to go as many trips as I can via Vilnius!!)
Ali
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Total Posts: 36 | Joined Sep. 2001 | Posted on: 12:16 pm on July 12, 2002 | IP
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euan2121
Talks too much |
Got to agree about the issue of getting tickets just because you have booked up trips already.
Just because you get jumpy and book up early doesnt mean you should get tickets.
Having travelled regularly I know the lie of the land and know its not necessary to start worrying about trips a year ahead.
I booked up both Latvia and the San.
/Marino with 2 weeks to go and thought I had done quite well to book Poland a month ahead.
I've not booked up for Iceland yet but I'm definitely still going because theres still plent of flight availability if you are flexible with times and routings.
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Total Posts: 132 | Joined Mar. 2002 | Posted on: 12:39 pm on July 12, 2002 | IP
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Tartan Army Message Board
Away Tickets
