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-- Posted by ReekySporran on 8:20 pm on Sep. 20, 2002

OK, call me satan :madflam:  but I'm beginning to be persuaded that we should bin 2008 and concentrate on getting Scottish football back to where it once was by investing in new facilities, youth football, better coaches, re-structuring the leagues, better administrators etc etc.

With the national game at its lowest ever ebb and club football also at its lowest ebb and dominated by crap foreigners, I think our minds should be focused on the above for the next decade and not 2008.

Ask the Executive to invest money into a National Football Academy or something similar rather than a new stand at Easter Road, or a new ground in Dundee for 2008.

Somebody tell me I'm wrong.......

-- Posted by Mazzy on 8:57 pm on Sep. 20, 2002

Too feart.................

-- Posted by Mazzy on 9:01 pm on Sep. 20, 2002

 Too feart.................

-- Posted by Bruce on 10:22 pm on Sep. 20, 2002

How much money is 2008 likely to bring in compared to what would be spent?   Anyone got any serious figures / info on past events profitability?

If we do it right surely we can make a pile of cash to invest in the future.

-- Posted by winky on 10:46 pm on Sep. 20, 2002

yer wrong........theres enuff money in this country to do all sorts.look at the cash being wasted on the builin site at the bottom o the mile,fowk buyin flats doon leith 250k a throw,how much was the last msp pay rise????
shippin our jobs oot to the far east to sweat shop labour........blah blah blah....rant over

-- Posted by fringo on 8:57 am on Sep. 21, 2002

I think the two should/could go hand in hand i.e. host 2008 and build team, structure , youth levels etc as part of that goal.
Lool at S Korea/Japan in 2002 and USA in 1994.Even France in 1998.

It gives focus and objective for that goal and hopefully the money generated helps finance it.

-- Posted by Bruce on 9:35 am on Sep. 21, 2002

Spot on!!

-- Posted by ReekySporran on 6:11 pm on Sep. 21, 2002

hmmmmm.........not convinced yet, surely 95% of the profit made will go into private companies and UEFA's pockets? I know I'm beginning to sound like a j*urnalist, but I WANT to be convinced!

-- Posted by Mick North Croy on 9:00 pm on Sep. 21, 2002

i dont think its a choice between bidding for the competition and ploughing money into investment in our footballing future.

As far as the government is concerned, if we dont get the bid they will look upon it as money saved and will just find use for it elsewhere

we should all get behind the bid :ok:

Reeky, you are wrong, BE CONVINCED   :cheesy:

-- Posted by Tam on 8:30 am on Sep. 23, 2002

Reekie,
training facilities, the key building block in your arguement, go hand in hand with hosting Euro2008.

In an ideal world it would be great to take that 70Million from the stadia etc and divert if from Scottish Executive coffers and plough it straight into youth development and training facilities.

In reality, if this money is not utilised as part of the Euro2008 pot, which includes 16 training facilities ALL OVER SCOTLAND, it will be squandered in some other way by the Scottish executive.

Euro 2008 is a WIN-WIN situation for everyone, not just the Dundee Clubs and Aberdeen.

Effectively we get 16 state of the Art training facilities that everyone keeps forgetting about.
The bid is not just two stadiam, its a lot more that that.

The summary bid document is up on the http://www.Euro2008bid.com website, and contains this, plus lots of other useful (/less) information.

Have a read, THEN you will be totally convinced.

Cheers,
Tam

-- Posted by Crozzer the Bing on 12:15 pm on Sep. 23, 2002

I wasnae against it but after reading that about the extra training facilities, which I never knew about, I'm even more convinced.

Should we get the tournament it can only be good us on a whole and might kick the SFA up the arse to sort out the current state of affairs.  That way we might avoid any more humiliations.

-- Posted by ReekySporran on 7:59 pm on Sep. 23, 2002

Ah Tam, I wondered when you would try and persuade me! I agree that the money which is being made available will otherwise go elsewhere other than football if the bid isn't succesful, thats a fair point.

However, I've had a look at the bid document, and to me the training facilities are basically club grounds with a few training HQ's thrown in such as Aberdeen, Rangers and Hearts, certainly not 16 state of the art facilities, I mean Gala Fairydean FC? Also, Hearts are funding their training HQ themselves but it has been delayed by nearly 2 years already and some are having doubts whether it will happen at all in the short term. I doubt there will be any more than 2 or 3 NEW training facilities developed for 2008, more like some changing room and pitch upgrades at club grounds.

What I am hoping, and what is making me lean more towards hosting, is that the tournament can be a catalyst for the game to flourish in Scotland, a bit like England and Euro96, and attract investment into the game. There are a lot of wealthy companies in Aberdeen and Edinburgh that don't see football as a wise investment (and in the current climate who can blame them!). It might even get kids away from their Playstations and back onto the football pitch!

I'm now 70/30 for 2008!

-- Posted by Tam on 10:21 pm on Sep. 23, 2002

Reekie,
at 70/30 for, you are leaning towards the bid now.

Lets face it, as soon as you start leaning mate.....its only a matter of time before you fall over the whole 100% :lol:

Tam
(Pot, kettle, black :wink:)

-- Posted by wee john on 9:28 am on Sep. 24, 2002

Aye right, fine time to start a campaign to scrap our bid 2 months before the decision, really clever that is!!!
We're in for it now, get that intae yer heids, there is no going back.

-- Posted by ReekySporran on 12:38 pm on Sep. 24, 2002

wee john - I would hardly call starting this thread a "campaign to scrap our bid" !! go and read my original post again.

Tam - I usually only get to 51/49 before its "timber!" and I'm left licking the flair!

-- Posted by Swanners on 3:46 pm on Sep. 24, 2002

Reeky - I'll try and swing it quickly and easily for you.

2008 = scotland qualifying = two weeks off work on the lash = happiness.

OK

-- Posted by fringo on 4:10 pm on Sep. 24, 2002

---

Quote: from Swanners on 4:46 pm on Sep. 24, 2002
Reeky - I'll try and swing it quickly and easily for you.

2008 = scotland qualifying = two weeks off work on the lash = happiness.

OK

---

-- Posted by ReekySporran on 6:08 pm on Sep. 24, 2002

Swanners, you paint a beautiful picture, I'm now 80/20 :biggrin:

-- Posted by tommyt on 6:32 pm on Sep. 24, 2002

On your figure point

The tax take alone associated with Eruo 96 was £600M -scotland could expect to generate a bit less (as we are wee-er and sare sharign with IReland) now (unless were are independent by then) that is money which will go to the tresaury in London, but thats a pro-indpendence rather than an anti 2008 argument - that money would more the recoup the oulay and, could be directed towards all sorts of good sporting causes.

Tommy

-- Posted by sonny on 11:34 pm on Sep. 24, 2002

Reeky,
You are right of course. The divisive approach is to tell people to think uncritically. It is of course a more inclusive approach to incorporate and discuss doubts and reservations.

My view is that we go ahead with the bid because in the worst case scenario we can convince Uefa at a later date by pointing to the fact that they can't refuse us twice. Also, we should have a plan B whereby we improve our youth training and have a tournament application too. I know that exists now but ideally the former should be well under way by the time we make another application.

-- Posted by wee john on 8:37 am on Sep. 25, 2002

Aye fine Reeky, pick if you like, campaign maybe wasn't the word, but to even be thinking we should scrap our bid now after all the work is plain daft.
You know what I meant!

-- Posted by Thermopylae on 8:46 am on Sep. 25, 2002

tommyt, for argument...

Does this mean the Scottish people and Scottish Executive will fund 2008, Westminster will rake in the tax benefit, and those benefits could ultimately be invested in British (ie. predominantly English) sports development?

-- Posted by Jam on 8:57 am on Sep. 25, 2002

I remember about a year ago that maybe the Scot Exec was gaunnae ask to keep the tax revenues from it. But huvnae heard oniehing since.

-- Posted by tommyt on 4:37 pm on Sep. 25, 2002

Yes as it stand all of the tax take , mostly VAT but tax on baccy, booze etc that was raised durign 2008 would go straight to the excequer in London.

We would get some of that back - about 12% through the way that the exec is now funded, the rest woudl just go into gordon Browns "war chest".

The SNP has been calling for an equivalent amoutn to be given to Scotland on the grounds that we raisd it, wont happen unless there is change of government though.

Predict a big political stushie about thsi if we get 2008

-- Posted by sonny on 4:49 pm on Sep. 25, 2002

As the majority of the expenditure ends up in salaries and company turnover the tax take will be huge. The parliament building will see between one-third and one-half of all we spend ending up in London. Same for expenditure here I guess. Proceeds from knock-on benefits would be similar too I suppose. Good argument for fiscal independence!

-- Posted by ReekySporran on 10:54 pm on Sep. 26, 2002

Sorry wee john, I don't fully subscribe to the "party line" on this and I'm having my doubts, as I'm entitled to! only 80/20 though........

-- Posted by Tam on 12:15 am on Sep. 27, 2002

TIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMBBBBBBBEEEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!

THUD!!!!!

:lol:

-- Posted by Neutral Observer on 12:31 am on Sep. 27, 2002

---

Quote: from sonny on 12:34 am on Sep. 25, 2002
My view is that we go ahead with the bid because in the worst case scenario we can convince Uefa at a later date by pointing to the fact that they can't refuse us twice.

---

-- Posted by perthshirebell on 10:08 pm on Nov. 9, 2002

Reeky it would make sense to scrap the bid and spend all that money on youth pitches insentives, etc, etc.  However i doubt Mr McConnell would allow us to spend all the money set aside for 2008 on the youngsters.  You have already seen how reluctant he was to bid for 2008 when he bottled it to go alone.

-- Posted by ReekySporran on 10:33 pm on Nov. 11, 2002

You're more than likely right there Perthshirebell, I have nae confidence in that idiot.

-- Posted by William Wallace on 10:43 pm on Nov. 11, 2002

Could money not be spent on youth development as well? I thought that the Executive had spent under its budget or something - not sure though.