| Thread Review for Dead In The Water (newest post first) |
| Gemmills Goal |
Posted on 8:10 am on Sep. 19, 2002 |
I've just come back from a huge six-day pish-up in Dublin where I also wore my Euro 2008 t-shirt to meet the UEFA delegation at Croke Park (which is one of the best stadiums I've ever seen).
Reading the papers over there in the wake of Bertie's announcement, it is clear that the Irish - as Breathnach says - are very embarrassed by the fuq up and feel they are letting the Scots down.
Their over-riding view seems to be that Croke Park will not be opened up to football but that private finance may yet save the bid plans.
The people on the streets seem hopeful the GAA will relent and really back the bid.
I also got the impression that Bertie had no greater aim in mind than to hijack the FAIs original plan to build a national stadium to further his political career and popularity.
If the UEFA delegates were unimpressed by anything that happened to them in Ireland, then it would be the fact that the Irish government failed to make sure the parliament's gates were big enough to allow their coach through  They really looked like they had the hump.
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| Bruce |
Posted on 6:39 pm on Sep. 18, 2002 |
Quote: from Tartan Sheep on 2:44 pm on Sep. 18, 2002
Disnae do any good though Bruce - I've never voted for the party that have control over my country (the Tories then Labour from Westminster then Labour from Holyrood).
I know how you feel but if more people actually opened their minds a little (and got off their erses of course) and considered the alternatives available at election time then we might get to see a few changes for the better. Too many people turn out and stick the cross in the same place everytime regardless of the candidates and the policies.
I grew up in Monklands and, Jeeeeeesus, but the Labour council there would have had to stalk the streets smeared in blood, shooting babies to have had any chance of failing to get elected.
Incidentally I have no party political agenda here - it doesn't matter which party it is that is f**king up at the time - it seems that much the same result comes around in Scotland every four years regardless of what has gone on in the intervening years. The lack of imagination/ courage to change things is disheartening.
McConnel and the likes need a good kick up the erse electorally to knock them into shape and remind them why they are there in the first place.
By the way, the only reason I said "you" in the original post is because I'm not in Scotland at the moment so I probably won't get a vote myself. Having said that I was a student the last time I was in Scotland during an election and I got two votes (a card was sent to my Uni address and to my parents address) so it's only fair I suppose. 
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| Tartan Sheep |
Posted on 1:44 pm on Sep. 18, 2002 |
Disnae do any good though Bruce - I've never voted for the party that have control over my country (the Tories then Labour from Westminster then Labour from Holyrood).
Let's hope that once Union Jack hears all the good things that UEFA are saying about our bid, he'll see that it wouldn't be such a bad thing after all and start to get enthusiastic about the whole damn thing. |
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| Bruce |
Posted on 12:49 pm on Sep. 18, 2002 |
Quote: from markiejd on 9:31 am on Sep. 18, 2002
Every thing good from the Scottish Exe has all been Lib Dem stuff
Well, you all know what to do when the next election comes round then.....
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| markiejd |
Posted on 8:31 am on Sep. 18, 2002 |
Bzzzz, bang on. I've said it from day one of McConnell "Goverment". We had no chance and we'll have no chance. This is the first and lightly last time the big boys don't want it. Look at England after 96 they want the 06 world cup? Why? Because its a money maker, not for the goverment but for pub, hotels, trains, the list is endless, but Jacko boy cant see beyond, "lets not piss off Tony", in fact he has been more behind the bid than MCConnell.
Every thing good from the Scottish Exe has all been Lib Dem stuff |
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| Bzzzz |
Posted on 3:26 pm on Sep. 12, 2002 |
Aye, McConnell never wanted it to happen, purely for political reasons. He poo pooed the solo bid as us being FAR too independent and then went for the Joint bid as it was pretty much doomed from the start and then he could blame the Irish and take all the heat off him.
Wanker. |
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| Jacobite |
Posted on 8:46 am on Sep. 12, 2002 |
| Nothing to be embarrassed about Breathnach,the more sceptical amongst us always felt that McConnell was setting Ireland up with an impossible deadline in the hope that the deal would collapse and he could blame the Irish. |
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| Ally Macabre |
Posted on 8:03 am on Sep. 12, 2002 |
Breathnach,
as an embarrassed Scotsman I don't think you have anything to be embarrassed about...
We kept the Irish hanging on for months while we fannied about, will we, won't we, solo bid/joint bid, then expected you to jump in at the eleventh hour to save the bid.
Win or lose it's just a big PR exercise for McConnell and Ahern, and its only the likes of us that seem to care about the football. |
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| Breathnach |
Posted on 7:46 pm on Sep. 11, 2002 |
| As an Irishman, this is all very embarrassing. The government made a total hames of this and the FAI have treated the GAA in an arrogant manner. It's simply not on inviting UEFA delegates to visit Croke Park and not being upfront with the actual owners of Croke Park about proceedings. The only saving grace is that the GAA will allow UEFA inspect Croke Park and that UEFA are not likely to see a finer stadium in any other country. We can only hope that the possibility that Croke Park can be used will be enough to offset all the bad press about the Government's decision to abandon Stadium Ireland. There's still enough money in private enterprise to build the second required stadium. Irish millionaire JP McManus has already lodged 60 million in a Swiss Bank Account for the stadium. That's nearly 25% of the cash already. But overall the Irish part of this bid is very haphazzard, without any leadership. Roy Keane was right when he said the FAI are a shambles. We are seeing it big time here. Add to this the "nod is as good as a wink" politics of Bertie Aherne and you have a right recipe for disaster. |
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| Tookster |
Posted on 4:54 pm on Sep. 11, 2002 |
And the worst of it is ....
WE'LL HAVE TO F**KIN QUALIFY NOW! |
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| tommyt |
Posted on 4:49 pm on Sep. 11, 2002 |
| you could always get someone to stand against Jack in the election next year representign the "Tartan Army euro2012 solo bid party" |
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| haddie |
Posted on 1:21 pm on Sep. 11, 2002 |
| McConnell will be having a wee quiet smile to himself today ,if the whole thing goes tits up as he has always hoped then he can blame the Irish. |
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| Jam |
Posted on 1:05 pm on Sep. 11, 2002 |
Agree with Sonny. What is our plan B if this bid fails?
1) Are we going to try and put the blame for any failure where it belongs - at the door of the Jackal for a joint bid that was unlikely to happen?
2) Are we going to campaign for a solo 2012 bid?
3) If so, are we going to try and gain his support?
I appreciate we may not wish to discuss these too much right now as we're still technically in the running - I think in a few months though we should have answers to these questions if we lose this one. |
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| combat |
Posted on 12:37 pm on Sep. 11, 2002 |
| Come on lads. It not over till the fat lassie sings. Were the Scottish(alba) and Eire spirt. We still got time to get on to the SFA/IFA/exective/goverment/GAA to sort it out. It all doom at the mo but remember WE CAN STILL RISE as the only way is up. |
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| sonny |
Posted on 12:23 pm on Sep. 11, 2002 |
Call me an old cynicy boots and you will but I read it all a wee tad differently.
I think 'The Jackal' didnae actually want to win it. Bertie says "This might be an extra argument for me to get my precious 'Bowl', we know it's off but if you let us on board you can blame for us it failing."
The Irish press never believed 2008 was gonnie happen. Predicating success on a foreign coalition governement demonstrated lack of comittment in the first place. The Alpines are already building the stadia they need (Mmmm, smells of commercial guarantees to me). The economic argument about a solo bid could be pulled apart by ordinary punters. Anyway, the facts have always pointed to an early stitich-up.
McConnell said that he would shoulder the responsibility if the bid failed, yet before swanning off to Johanesberg gave an interview to the Scotsman about how the joint bid may have been stitched up by the Alpines and Uefa some time ago. Basically, if the bid fails there will be any number of reasons for it and he'll get off the hook.
I know like after the solo bid collapse that we all have to keep on demonstrating support. What i'd appreciate is a plan B from those who are involved in the TA hierarchy. How are we gonnie pick ourselves up if the joint bid fails? I'm not lookin to mix it - just wondering. |
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| Bruce |
Posted on 11:30 am on Sep. 11, 2002 |
| That's the problem. The door is now wide open for the Alpine bid to win by default. Doesn't matter a toss what the GAA or private investors may or may not do at some unspecified point in the future. We need to be in a position to beat credible rival bids from abroad NOW. |
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| Jam |
Posted on 9:09 am on Sep. 11, 2002 |
mibbe - but there's nae such worries in the Alps. Totally sorted wi stadia they are.
Methinks the bid will lose now and soon we will be hearing Union Jack's empty 'expressions of disappointment'. Aye cheers. |
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| Gemmills Goal |
Posted on 8:58 am on Sep. 11, 2002 |
I accept the timing was bad - but I think from the Irish government's perspective it would have been worse for them had they kept quite and hoped the GAA would have delivered. If they had taken this step and the GAA do not deliver, it could have been disastrous for them, having to do a u-turn after a bid had been accepted.
I'm still confident it'll happen, because the Irish government's proposed £315m spend was for an 80,000 seater stadium. That size of stadium is not needed for this tournament, therefore, private funding may be more easily forthcoming for a smaller, less costly stadium.
(Edited by Gemmills Goal at 10:01 am on Sep. 11, 2002) |
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| Jonny |
Posted on 8:37 am on Sep. 11, 2002 |
GG - Agree with you basically that economic realities ultimately make the decision but I think the point is the timing of the announcement with UEFA due to visit Dublin in a few days. They could easily have held off this decision until after Euro2008 had been awarded - it's only 3 months away. General feeling in Ireland seems to be that it's only a matter of time before Croke Park gets the go ahead from the GAA to host Euro2008 games, anyway. There was no need for them to say this. All they have to do is 2 out of these 3 stadiums will be available, which they would have been.
Euro 2004 has been a complete mess from a financial and stadium building point of view, our bid would be a dream in comparison, even without Bertie's Bowl. Also, it would be far easier to attract private investors with the bid won.
Simon Lyons on the radio this morning was saying the bid is still very much alive etc. but he must feel like David Taylor did when Union Jack pulled the rug from under his (and oor!) feet. |
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| Gemmills Goal |
Posted on 8:27 am on Sep. 11, 2002 |
Sorry if this sounds like killjoy stuff, but reality is...well...reality. I do want the bid to go ahead and believe private finance has a major role to play. But therein lies the problem.
Betrie Ahern was happy to pump money into his "Bowl" when the Celtic Tiger economy was rearing and Ireland was hauling in cash and inward investment by the skipload. That isn't happening now and Ireland is facing growing unemployment and possible recession on the back of the decline in the tech industry, which gave birth to its recent boom. Only last week, one of the country's biggest investors pulled the plug, following in the wake of other companies' departures. That will have a severe impact on the economic future of the Irish people and Treasury coffers. However much the Irish punters may like to see a gleaming new stadium, when times are getting tough they will prefer to have the continuation of public services at present levels etc. (Well, maybe some would think to hell with it, let's have a party!).
The issue of funding/helping fund a stadium is an interesting proposal to the private sector - look at Reebok's involvement at Bolton. But again, only in times when the money is pouring in. Companies need to plan for the future and if the future suggests a possible recession over the next three years, the belts are going to tighten and the hawkers turned away at the shareholders' doors.
And with regard to the GAA and raising the profile of their sport - they don't give a monkeys for that. It's a sport played primarily in Ireland (and seemingly superglued to the working class) and the GAA don't for a minute think that TV coverage will do anything to widen interest in the sport. (That's my personal understanding having spoken to Irish friends). The GAA have survived off the fat of their own backs for years and it looks to me like that's the way they want it to stay.
However hard it is, that's the economic reality facing Bertie and the Dublin government. |
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