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Topic: McConnell - A pathological fixer
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Thread Review for McConnell - A pathological fixer (newest post first)
Jam Posted on 11:55 am on Mar. 13, 2002
Sonny - confuse you with somebody who hinks we shidnae go solo (in more than one walk of life ). Don't think so!! I'm well aware of your views on that and I agree with them.
sonny Posted on 11:01 am on Mar. 13, 2002
Hope your not confusing me with someone who is disagreeing here. It should have been solo and I don't think that the join bid is a mover. The Irish could be stringing us along knowing they can't do it so they can put in a solo bid in 2012 themselves......
Jam Posted on 10:44 am on Mar. 13, 2002
I thought they were trying to sort out the Galway - Dublin train line. And build better access in and out of Dublin by road. Anyway that's for them to sort out.

Kennymack59 is so right about how ridiculous it is to be inviting Ireland on board. They're our competitors and at the moment they are sh*teing on us at everything from tourism to fitba (our national game). Shows ye what a bit of marketing yirsel independently can do.

Also they've got all these GAA stadia that are only full a few times a year. A bit like those would have been at Killie, Dundee etc. So what? disnae bother them. Our lack of ambition is unbelievable.

Can you believe one of the objections to a solo bid was saying what Killie (for example) would do with a 23,000 (after temp stands taken down) coz they would only fill it a few times a year. So phackin what!!!! There's wheens ae dosh to be made!!
sonny Posted on 11:28 pm on Mar. 12, 2002
Fair doos, though they huv got min 4 years to get that right - a normal country can achieve that sort of thing...
Lamia Posted on 9:47 pm on Mar. 12, 2002
Need to do something serious about their transport infrastructure though.
sonny Posted on 7:45 pm on Mar. 12, 2002
If they used gaelic football stadia they would be closer to hosting 2008 than the fitbaw infrastructure of both Scotland and Ireland now!

By 2012 that may be on the cards....
Lamia Posted on 7:41 pm on Mar. 12, 2002
I agree that the Irish are "wiping the floor" with us in a tourism sense. But I cannot see them going for a sole bid. Football is not big enough over there and they do not have the infrastructure to cope and they could not achieve the changes needed in 4 years.

Ever tried travelling across Ireland...nightmare.
kennymack59 Posted on 11:48 am on Mar. 12, 2002
The Irish may lack the football infrastructure to launch their own bid but they sure do have a world class record of attracting and impressing visitors. If tourism is really Scotland's biggest industry (and who am I do doubt it) then Ireland is our biggest industrial competitor. At the moment they are wiping the floor with our tourism industry, so what do we do? When the opportunity arises to give our most important industry its biggest ever boost we invite the Irish onboard! If by some miracle the Scots/Irish bid wins you can bet they'll attract more visitors than us. And whose to say that when 2008 fails, the Irish wont use the experience to launch their own successful solo bid four years on? Think I'll just forget about Euro 2008 and save up for my hols - in Ireland of course.
fringo Posted on 5:43 pm on Mar. 5, 2002
I seem to remember an earlier thread which had links to Irish football forums.
Maybe we could get back on there and start sharing views and opinions.
Judging by contributors on this site and many other newspaper articles and TV programs , this  site certainly gets viewed and word goes around.
sonny Posted on 5:26 pm on Mar. 5, 2002
Hi ScotMag,
May I say in advance that nothing that I write should be taken as an attack on you or your colleagues!

Ok. That is a good point. Mibbe then if we used the board to help start an Irish supporters organisation. I mean bring them in and once there are enough of them help them set up on their tod.

What dya think about that?

As for the how do you define the TA quezzy why not those who are members? The rest are supporters of the Scotland team. This doesn't seem like rocket science to me. If you have one organisation where every member is represented then you can say that you talk for the TA (though perhaps with the caveat that you do not talk for all Scotland fans).
ScottishMagpie Posted on 3:45 pm on Mar. 5, 2002
Firstly as Tam says ATAC don't claim to represent the Tartan Army.  After all what is the Tartan Army.  Is it the hardcore of about 500-750 who go to every game?  Is it the 12,000 or so STC members?  Is it the 30000 people who turn up to home games?  Is it the hundreds of thousands of people who watch the games on TV and buy replica tops?  No one individual can claim to represent the TA, although this hasn't stopped a few people trying.

Arguably it's all of the above.  All we've ever claimed to represent is the member clubs which is where the 2000 figure comes from.   Believe me, this is soemthing that we take very seriously.  Unfortunately this is sometimes represented in the press as "The Tartan Army says", there's little we can do about this.

There's a number of problems with any 'joint' ventures & it's not about finances because that can be sorted out through sponsorship if needs be.

The main problems are on the Irish end.  There is no Irish version of ATAC, they don't even have a Travel Club.  As far as we know there are no supporters clubs.  

So who should we be approaching?

Craig McDowall
Lunnainn Albannaich
Phil MaGlass Posted on 2:16 pm on Mar. 5, 2002
Up yours Tossy.
sonny Posted on 10:55 pm on Mar. 3, 2002
Aye a know - but we can't ask them to have meets unless they huv money to travel etc..
VTA Posted on 8:43 pm on Mar. 3, 2002
I never meant anything representing the TA.  I just know that the guys at ATAC are backing the bid and seem pretty organized - I hoped they might be able to strike up a relationship with some likeminded people in Ireland to help coordinate a grassroots campaign.  As it is a joint bid it would be useful to see some real togetherness instead of the "their football association are working closely with us"  blah.
Rossy Posted on 7:47 pm on Mar. 3, 2002
Hey tam...that means that East Fife and Clyde have baith got at least 60.000 fans !
Even Hibs will have around 3.000.
sonny Posted on 5:04 pm on Mar. 3, 2002
I dunno, I'm just paraphrasing from from what ATAC members said themselves. Also, that statement to the press had as an "editor's note" that ATAC didn't rep the TA. Is it just that no-one else is allowed to say it?

I'm not having a go, I'm trying to inform from what I was told.

I just thought if there was one organisation for the TA then the guys at ATAC or whoever could then claim to speak for the TA which would be better - don't you think? if that organisation could raise money for the likes of your good self to travel and meet and liaise with other national fan organisations that would help with what VTA was saying - don't you think? It seems that at the moment there is no resources for these kind of things to happen which is why I said what I did. Just general observations Tam.

If I do go to an ETA meeting, I'm hardly likely to go in blazing am I? :-)

Man, you dudes can be right touchy - don't you think?
Tam Posted on 3:38 pm on Mar. 3, 2002
please clarify the percentage of members needed to represent any body?

How many registered supporters to typical domestic supporters groups have?

BTW: What kind of ATAC restructuring did you have in mind?

I think I'll come through to Edinburgh for your first meeting after you join ETA. It should be very interesting :-)

Pick any team in Scotland, assume the support is the number they took to the last Cup final, count up all the members in their supporters group, divide the latter by the former, and what do you get?

After you sign up the other 10000 STC member for your Tartan Army supporters group, can you then claim to represent the Tartan Army?

sonny Posted on 2:04 pm on Mar. 3, 2002
Interesting! I doubt if ATAC have the funds though. Also, unless there is some restructuring then they can't really say they represent the TA. They only represent 2 000 members.
fringo Posted on 12:15 pm on Mar. 3, 2002
VTA, I totally agree with idea of trying to get Irish to promote joint bid in Japan/Korea.
Along with the TA, the Irish fans have an excellent (and growing ) reputation, and this would be chance to promote it in global arena.
VTA Posted on 10:42 pm on Mar. 2, 2002
Right I hope the board is fixed after my ten pager was reduced to 3 lines last night.  Looked like I had dropped dead right in the middle.  So its a joint bid or nothing - okay then its a joint bid and by that I mean really joint.  None of this Irish 25% etc - we need to be in it together.  Of course there are problems with it and by christ the faces of our own doom merchants would put most off.  The Irish stadia situation is a shambles and will continue to be so well after May.  From what I hear there will only be a promise of two stadia with none being named.  I would not be surprised if Ahern is using this joint bid thing as a bit of a carrot to the electorate especially as the election there is right in the middle of their world cup fever month - conspiracy theory, you tell me.  Anyway at the moment he has no agreement from anyone for any stadium.  Now heres the deal - I dont see any real impetus being put into the bid from the top down, I really think this is going to come from the footsoldiers of both nations.  I dont know if ATAC are actively seeking out and working with counterparts in Ireland but this would seem to be the best way forward.  Nobody else could touch an advertising campaign conducted around Europe and further by the fans of these nations.  The Scots and the Irish generate a lot of interest wherever they travel - we are walking ads for our countries - add a bit of 2008 publicity and you have a full blown campaign across Europe.   Who else is gonna be doing this - the Austrians, Swiss, Hungarians, Russians, Bosnians, Swedes, Norwegians - i dont think so!!!  Its definately time for a bit of coordination and with the old oirish at the world cup all they need is a massive banner at their games to ensure media coverage.  I think ATAC are the people to get this going - it needs to be a partnership at our level - if you leave it to the suits you'll only end up with odd noises and fudge.

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